Posts by Reefton Jack

26

What rebellious actions did you or other do in your congregation?

by JH in

jw
friends

what rebellious actions did you or other do in your congregation, not enough to be disfellowshipped, but went a little too far.

sometimes we have to unwind .

i remember sitting in a brothers car.

Reefton Jack

Compared with some of the stories here, the most rebellious things I ever did were quite tame!

When the WTS was pushing the "conscience" bit in the mid-1970s, I grew a beard for a time. Also, I took to wearing a polo neck, rather than the regulation shirt with stand-up collar plus tie costume.That lasted until I was informed that I could not be used to give prayer.

Looking back, these seem like no big deal at all.

At the time, though, I did both to hand the old "two fingered salute" to the elders.

Jack.

35

Hi! Any other Latter Day Saints here?

by ElderBarry in

jw
friends

hi my name is lisa.

i'm not an elder of course and never have been.

i was a jw for just a few years and then relocated and left it behind.

Reefton Jack

I am not an LDS - for that matter, not in any way religious, either.

I do, however, have friends that are LDS.

One thing that does impress me about the "Mormons" / Church of the Latter Day Saints is how family friendly they are - certainly in comparison to the WTS.

I resent the WTS for many reasons - but if I had to single out one thing more than the others, it would be how their whole theology / way of life prevented me from having a stabe life with my family.

Bad experiences during my 28 years with the JWs have soured me towards religion in any of its forms - and for all time. But I would never want to deny that right to anyone else. As far as I am concerned, too many people died in two world wars guaranteeing such things as freedom of worship for me to want to interfere!

55

Do you think a nuclear weapon will be used in war or terrorism in our time?

by free2beme in

jw
friends

with all those nukes out there, and all the countries that have them or are making them.

do you think it is something we should expect, that in our lifetime a nuclear weapon will be used in war or an act of terrorism?

i personally think it is possible, and i think it would be the middle east that would see this happening.

Reefton Jack

When the Soviet Union broke up in the early 1990s, a lot of sophisticated military equipment and ordinance was available for purchase - whether sold officially / legally or on the Black Market.

You would have to ask how much control could have possibly been excercised over the security of their nuclear weapons during that time? Soviet nuclear weapons - including the lower yielding "tactical" ones - were deployed in countries which overnight became laws to themselves.

Add to that the fact that a primitive yet effective atomic bomb (e.g. of the Hiroshima type) is not that difficult to make. The major obstacle used to be getting hold of the necessary weapons-grade uranium to make the device. But with the upheaval that went on after the collapse of the Soviet Union, how much of that material went missing?

I am only surprised that a nuclear device has not already been used by terrorists. We all well remember a certain group of people that was deranged enough to crash an air-liner into a high-rise building in a terror attack. If they are crazy enough to do that, then they are crazy enough to use a nuclear device for the same purpose!

Jack.

159

Firearms And Shooting...

by Justice-One in

i thought i would open up a thread on firearms and shooting.

personally i was raised around firearms as my dad was not a jw.

some of my earliest memories are of my dad teaching me how to put a round in a fleas ass at 200 meters.

Reefton Jack

I come from a remote rural background, and grew up around firearms.At one point owned a fair collection of rifles, and in those years did a lot of hunting. However, when I moved to the city some years ago, I got rid of most of my rifles - simply because the opportunities for doing any hunting were no longer there.

These days, I have taken up smallbore shooting as a hobby - and as a way of keeping my eye in. (I still have dreams of one day moving back to the bush!)

I do, however, have reservations about how much protection carrying a gun on your person actually affords. I say this from my own experience. During the years 2003 - 2005, I lived in a certain Third World country with a particularly bad violent crime problem. Had I been legally able to arm myself at that time, I would have done so. (Previous writers here have mentioned how Gun Control Laws only penalise the legitimate gun owner!)

However, the only people that I knew during that time who got shot were both carrying a gun on their person.

There was at least one instance in which I would have used a gun if I had had one. Even that would not have not prevented the stoning attack that had taken place on my vehicle - use of the gun would have been done in a fit of rage afterwards(I was bloody ropable by then!), and to "teach the ######s a lesson."

Also, given the "payback" system that operates in that country,tremendous problems would have resulted from any such shooting (fatal or otherwise). Later,in the sober light of day, I had to agree with others that it was just as well that I was not armed on that occassion.

My experiences anyway,

Jack.

63

She's Back! With a question about guns & JWs

by asleif_dufansdottir in

jw
friends

hey, guys.... looooooong time no see.

some of you might remember me but it's been a very long time.

still in grad school, and have a new (sort of) hobby.. i've always liked guns.

Reefton Jack

Going back to the incident in the bible in which Simon Peter struck somebody with a sword (John 18:10) only Luke's account mentions any question being raised.

This question was actually raised by the disciples - Luke's account states that they asked Jesus about hitting back with their swords. (Luke 22:49,50)

In quoting the WTS attempt to explain why Peter was carrying a lethal weapon, the point I was trying to make is this:

- That the WTS explanation is a likely story! (I'm in full agreement with james_wood's post about that one)

I apologise if I gave the impression of supporting the WTS view. (Hell will freeze over first, before that ever happens!)

Jack.

26

Did you make life altering decisions because of 1975?

by restrangled in

jw
friends

i had extended family members, both with families of 7, abandon good jobs and homes in the suburbs of chicago.

they moved to the wild outskirts of 2 separate states to protect their families from armageddon.

they both waited for 20 years, wound up financially destitute and finally had to move and depend on other family members to recover.. it would be interesting to read the stories from those of you who went through this time period as a jw.. r.

Reefton Jack

The short answer is "Yes!."

Firstly, there was the issue of university education . A conversation between an elder and my parents put paid to that when I was in the last year at high school!

Secondly, after one year into my apprenticeship as an electronics technician, heavy-handed tactics by the same elder finished that, too. (This was late 1972).

The upshot of that was I managed to resume the apprenticeship six years later. For this, though, I was critisized in some quarters - and actually outright shunned in the congregation.

That was the start of my slow exit from the JWs.

Jack.

PS: Once, I would have added that I am happy that I never was an elder! I now more incline to the view that the elders, also, are largely victims.

63

She's Back! With a question about guns & JWs

by asleif_dufansdottir in

jw
friends

hey, guys.... looooooong time no see.

some of you might remember me but it's been a very long time.

still in grad school, and have a new (sort of) hobby.. i've always liked guns.

Reefton Jack

VM-44,

With reference to John 18:10:

Unfortunately in this instance, I threw all my WTS literature away when I broke with the dubs 12 years ago. So I cannot quote which issue of the Watchtower that this was mentioned in.

I do, however, remember them trying to explain the incident in the bible that you are referring to.

Apparently, the official reason given for why Simon Peter was armed in public with a lethal weapon was that "they used to carry weapons for protection against attack from wild animals."

I suppose if confronted by a lion or a bear, a sword would be marginally more effective than your bare hands -no pun intended!

(A .375 Magnum would have been a much better idea - but this incident happened 2000 years before those things were invented).

39

What Are "Unfair" Things JWs Made You Do?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i was thinking how unnatural it is for most people to knock on stranger's doors and tell them that if they don't respond to what they were trying to get across, that they were going to be killed by god.

.....then there's the obligation to join the theocratic ministry school and go on a platform and give talks---even if you had a phobia!

.....or you're made to feel that you must answer at the meetings even if you're extremely shy.....are there other things that you can think of that made you totally uncomfortable?

Reefton Jack

After reading the previous comments on the unfair things JWs make people do:

- I could just about say yes to "All of the Above!"

(I do tend to identify with the camp that classes door-knocking as unnatural, though!)

One of their insane requirements, though, stands out as even worse than all the others:

- Being required to drag small children along to all five weekly meetings, and expecting them to sit quietly for two boring hours. (Even worse than that, being required to drag the same children along to Circuit Assemblies, District Assemblies / Conventions and expect the same).

- This goes beyond unfair and into the Inhuman!

The irony of this is that, in the late 1970s, the WTS put out a book entitled "Choosing the Best Way of Life" ; and another one called "Making Your Family Life Happy". (As if those 12 fossilized freaks would know anything about Family Life).

All I can say is no wonder most JW-reared kids throw the whole thing away as soon as they are able to do so - I know that I would - so fast that my feet would hardly touch the ground!

37

Name the good things that Jw's have or believe....

by AK - Jeff in

we always seem to get focused on the bad - and there is plenty of it for sure - and anyone who follows my posts knows i am no wt apologist by any stretch.

but focusing on the postive is a good thing in the 'moving on' process i think too.

what do you think jw's had right?.

Reefton Jack

The only benefit that I took away from my time with the dubs came from the Ministry School. Thanks to the TMS, I overcame my shyness and - although I say this myself - I became a passable enough speaker.

That skill, at least, has come in handy - like a year ago, when I had to face down a mob of angry striking workers.

Mind you, I will be the first to admit that it proved to be a very expensive course in public speaking!

Jack.

11

If JWs get reviled at the door

by greendawn in

if some jws get reviled at the door by someone who dislikes them how would you feel for them, would you identify with their position, perhaps recalling a similar experience from the past jw days, and pity them or would you say they deserve what they get, because perhaps they shun you as an ex dub.

i would rather pity them for being naive fools.

such incidents make them feel like martyrs that have the truth.

Reefton Jack

When I was a D2D JW, it was noted that those who gave us the nastiest response were always ones who considered themselves to be "Christians." In particular, Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterian, and Bretheren stood out as being abusive.

Could any of them picture Jesus as being abusive?

It just goes to show that hypocrisy is not limited to the dubs!

Jack.